badhearing
2005-07-17 18:11:38 UTC
Hi guys,
this is a neurotransmitter-related matter so also rec.drugs.smart should
be interested -- and I hope these smart guys be able to shed some light
here.
--- SHORT VERSION: ---
Rhodiola Rosea (in overdose) greatly helps my CPAD: problem hearing
words in noise. I would like to understand which is the mechanism of
action for this and possibly find another more specific medication
(cheaper, or working at more normal dose, or working faster) which does
the same. See bottom for "official" description of Rhodiola Rosea
many mechanisms of action.
Thanks
--- LONG VERSION: ---
I am ADHD inattentive.
I have a perfect silence-based hearing test, however I have terrible
problems in understanding speech when there is background noise, and I
continuously need to ask people to repeat (very embarassing). I'm
practically unable to do any conversation at the disco or in noisy pubs,
and anyway have difficulties in most other social situations. This is
almost as bad as the ADD itself.
AFAIK this problem is called CPAD (central processing auditory disorder)
and often comes together with ADHD.
It is little known, but it is most likely again a neurotransmitter
problem. Treatments are not known, except that sometimes the ADHD
medications work. Not in my case: Ritalin works for ADD
(ADHD-inattentive) but not for CPAD, and deprenyl also, partly works for
ADD but not for CPAD
Now the good news: in the past, before being diagnosed ADD, I had found
by chance a supplement which would overcome the CPAD problem! (no other
positive or negative effect as far as I remember)
It was Arctic Root, also called Rhodiola Rosea, by the Swedish Herbal
Institute (I didn't try other brands). This one:
http://www.nutritiongeeks.com/arctic-root-energy-kare-40/arctic-root-energy-kare.html
But I needed a significant overdose for that effect: 24 hours before the
time in which I wanted the effect, I had to take 4 tablets. Then 12
hours before another 4 tablets, and a few hours before another 8 (eight)
tablets! Consider that the normal dose is AFAIR 1-4 tablets per day...
The bad news was the cost, and also the time: I think it was something
around 8 euro for the 16 pills, and one day of planning in advance was
needed :-(
Now: Rhodiola Rosea appears to have various mechanisms of action, e.g. see:
http://forums.bulknutrition.com/topic792.html
(also pasted below)
I would like to try understand which, among those, is the mechanism of
Rhodiola Rosea which helps CPAD, and would like to find another
more-specific medication (cheaper, faster in effect) which would do the
same.
Any neurotransmitter guru can make a guess from the writing below,
please?
A few clues:
As I wrote above, Ritalin does not work for CPAD for me though it works
for ADD. So the involved neurotransmitter might not be dopamine.
Someone says maybe Rhodiola Rosea might be an MAOI (then I might have
risked my life overdosing... but in facts I didn't notice any problem).
However now it's 9 days that I have started Deprenyl, a MAO-B inhibitor,
at 10 mg / day and I can say it does not work for CPAD.
To say it fully, at 10mg/day it does not work even for ADD, while at
1.25mg/day it did have some benefit for ADD but anyway not for CPAD.
Also 10mg/day of deprenyl are not enough for MAO-A inhibition, so I
cannot totally exclude that CPAD is MAO-A dependent or
serotonin-dependent or norepinephrine dependent. However my mother, who
seems far from depressed, also has significant CPAD and a little ADHD,
so CPAD might not be related to serotonin.
Any comments appreciated
Thank you
'badhearing'
----------------
From BulkNutrition forum - mechanisms of action of RR
"The mechanisms of action of Rhodiola rosea are many. These include
antioxidant activity, propyl endopeptidase inhibition [2, 5],
facilitation of monoaminergic activity, and opioid receptor activation.
The enzyme propyl endopeptidase metabolizes various proline-containing
neuropeptides including vasopressin, substance P, thyrotropin-releasing
hormone, and alpha-melanocyte-stimulating hormone, all of which may play
roles in learning and memory processes [5, 7]. Indeed, other propyl
endopeptidase inhibitors improve spatial memory in animal models [7-8].
Rhodiola rosea may also inhibit monoamine oxidase (MAO) and
catechol-O-methyltransferase (COMT) and facilitate the transport of
neurotransmittors in the brain [1]. Another mechanism of action is the
release of endorphins. Russian research indicates that Rhodiola rosea
induces opioid peptide biosynthesis by activating opioid receptors in
both the central and peripheral nervous system [1]."
---
The "may" in reference to MAO and COMT is a very big "may." This effect
has been theorized because rhodiola leads to various changes in
monoamine levels in rats - both increases and decreases, depending on
the area of the brain. It is much more likely that this is downstream to
other effects of rhodiola. IOW, there is no solid evidence that rhodiola
even has these effects yet. The mechanism of action is primarily related
to it's effects on various peptides.
this is a neurotransmitter-related matter so also rec.drugs.smart should
be interested -- and I hope these smart guys be able to shed some light
here.
--- SHORT VERSION: ---
Rhodiola Rosea (in overdose) greatly helps my CPAD: problem hearing
words in noise. I would like to understand which is the mechanism of
action for this and possibly find another more specific medication
(cheaper, or working at more normal dose, or working faster) which does
the same. See bottom for "official" description of Rhodiola Rosea
many mechanisms of action.
Thanks
--- LONG VERSION: ---
I am ADHD inattentive.
I have a perfect silence-based hearing test, however I have terrible
problems in understanding speech when there is background noise, and I
continuously need to ask people to repeat (very embarassing). I'm
practically unable to do any conversation at the disco or in noisy pubs,
and anyway have difficulties in most other social situations. This is
almost as bad as the ADD itself.
AFAIK this problem is called CPAD (central processing auditory disorder)
and often comes together with ADHD.
It is little known, but it is most likely again a neurotransmitter
problem. Treatments are not known, except that sometimes the ADHD
medications work. Not in my case: Ritalin works for ADD
(ADHD-inattentive) but not for CPAD, and deprenyl also, partly works for
ADD but not for CPAD
Now the good news: in the past, before being diagnosed ADD, I had found
by chance a supplement which would overcome the CPAD problem! (no other
positive or negative effect as far as I remember)
It was Arctic Root, also called Rhodiola Rosea, by the Swedish Herbal
Institute (I didn't try other brands). This one:
http://www.nutritiongeeks.com/arctic-root-energy-kare-40/arctic-root-energy-kare.html
But I needed a significant overdose for that effect: 24 hours before the
time in which I wanted the effect, I had to take 4 tablets. Then 12
hours before another 4 tablets, and a few hours before another 8 (eight)
tablets! Consider that the normal dose is AFAIR 1-4 tablets per day...
The bad news was the cost, and also the time: I think it was something
around 8 euro for the 16 pills, and one day of planning in advance was
needed :-(
Now: Rhodiola Rosea appears to have various mechanisms of action, e.g. see:
http://forums.bulknutrition.com/topic792.html
(also pasted below)
I would like to try understand which, among those, is the mechanism of
Rhodiola Rosea which helps CPAD, and would like to find another
more-specific medication (cheaper, faster in effect) which would do the
same.
Any neurotransmitter guru can make a guess from the writing below,
please?
A few clues:
As I wrote above, Ritalin does not work for CPAD for me though it works
for ADD. So the involved neurotransmitter might not be dopamine.
Someone says maybe Rhodiola Rosea might be an MAOI (then I might have
risked my life overdosing... but in facts I didn't notice any problem).
However now it's 9 days that I have started Deprenyl, a MAO-B inhibitor,
at 10 mg / day and I can say it does not work for CPAD.
To say it fully, at 10mg/day it does not work even for ADD, while at
1.25mg/day it did have some benefit for ADD but anyway not for CPAD.
Also 10mg/day of deprenyl are not enough for MAO-A inhibition, so I
cannot totally exclude that CPAD is MAO-A dependent or
serotonin-dependent or norepinephrine dependent. However my mother, who
seems far from depressed, also has significant CPAD and a little ADHD,
so CPAD might not be related to serotonin.
Any comments appreciated
Thank you
'badhearing'
----------------
From BulkNutrition forum - mechanisms of action of RR
"The mechanisms of action of Rhodiola rosea are many. These include
antioxidant activity, propyl endopeptidase inhibition [2, 5],
facilitation of monoaminergic activity, and opioid receptor activation.
The enzyme propyl endopeptidase metabolizes various proline-containing
neuropeptides including vasopressin, substance P, thyrotropin-releasing
hormone, and alpha-melanocyte-stimulating hormone, all of which may play
roles in learning and memory processes [5, 7]. Indeed, other propyl
endopeptidase inhibitors improve spatial memory in animal models [7-8].
Rhodiola rosea may also inhibit monoamine oxidase (MAO) and
catechol-O-methyltransferase (COMT) and facilitate the transport of
neurotransmittors in the brain [1]. Another mechanism of action is the
release of endorphins. Russian research indicates that Rhodiola rosea
induces opioid peptide biosynthesis by activating opioid receptors in
both the central and peripheral nervous system [1]."
---
The "may" in reference to MAO and COMT is a very big "may." This effect
has been theorized because rhodiola leads to various changes in
monoamine levels in rats - both increases and decreases, depending on
the area of the brain. It is much more likely that this is downstream to
other effects of rhodiola. IOW, there is no solid evidence that rhodiola
even has these effects yet. The mechanism of action is primarily related
to it's effects on various peptides.